Help with getting sweetness

[SniffCoffee]

Hi Wayne - I sent this as PM but then thought others would like to see your responses

First, thanks for the core profiles. I've only just started using them, but am enjoying them a lot.

I was wondering if you could recommend profiles and blends for sweetness/cocoa? Here's what's currently in my pile of green beans (with altitude estimates):

India Elephant Hills A Grade 1500m
Guatemala Huehuetenango 1890m
Costa Rica Miel SHB 1250-1650m
Sumatra Mandheling Triple Sort 760-1400m
Ethiopia Shakisso Estate 1750m
Indonesia West Java Gr1 1200-1400m
Tanzania Ngorongoro AA 1550-1650m
Peru Ceja de Selva A 2000-2800m
PNG Wahgi AA 1500-1800m
Rwanda Nyungwe A 1600-2950m
Nicaragua El Recreo Honey 1200m
Nicaragua Matagalpa A 800m

I generally roast at 2.4. I do this because any higher and the beans seem to lose too much moisture/ start to get a charry taste (at least to my amateur palate).

I'm roasting for espresso, using a spring lever Bosco group, 19 or 20g in a dose.

The little roaster is a gem. As I said, blending is so easy, because it's so quick to roast enough to mix different beans.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Regards James (Sniffcoffee)

[fnq]

Hi James

Thanks for throwing this out for public viewing, I for one am interested in this sort of info as well.

That is a great stash of beans- and i would guess due to their availability you are in Australia. ( from my probably incorrect observations the New Zealanders generally have access to slightly different beans.)

I would offer my suggestions/comments noting i am novice - ( ie ready to be shot down in flames - so its okay to disagree/ignore me.)


Is your descriptor of roast taste Char (y) or cherry? I have taken a couple of high 4Plus roasts into ash like aftertaste ( smoky, ash, charred) but i wouldn't have thought 2.4 would not be even close to achieving that.

If it is a cheery taste, then it makes more sense to me, with say the Ethiopian Shakisso beginning to release its fruity highlights.

I think you will need to be prepared to increase your roast depth probably into the medium dark reaches to find some sweetness and cocoa.

I am also in the search for some cocoa and sweetness as well as a bit more body - almost syrupy flow. I have been partially successful with Sulawesi Blue ( substitute your sumatran and indo West beans), basically trying to emulate some Mocha Java creations when paired with a Yemen or ethiopian. i roast in the 3.3- 4.0 range - which also happens to be a bit of a glass ceiling for me due to power limitations. I think the darkside profile or Strong and dark will assist you .

As a base i find Indian Elephant hills ( at 3.3 and higher) brings some sweetness.

I am pretty sure Wayne would like to see some roast log profiles just to make sure the KL is achieving the set profile.

Looking forward to others' sugesstions.
Darryl

[Wayne]

Hello James and Darryl

Thanks so much for your posts ..

Thank you for the info on coffee .

You are so right . Id love to see logs ... As many logs as you would like to send .

The core Profiles .. The core profiles have been developed to maximise flavour of a variety of Origins .
No to say that you wouldn't have to fine tweak the profiles when roasting individual origins . This is all adaption to the personal preference you need in your roast .

All the RTD and the REST profiles are Altitude based . Try roast your coffees with the matching altitude profile . Have a look at the map in the pack This Altitude map helps you choose the altitude profile .

Give this a go , Still choose your Recommended level - 2.4 Etc . The default loading of the profile is MEDIUM around 3.0 - 3.2 . This maximises the 23-26 % DTR ... I personally prefer the 2.2 - 2.4 Adjustment on certain Origins . I love Acidity and Flavour .

The Profiles are focussed on the early development phase through colour change through Mallard into 1st crack .

All the 12 profiles are each unique in all ways .

Find the folder attached . The updated Firmware is included . These profiles should BRING OUT SWEETNESS .. Remember , If your Origin does not have sweetness as an Origin Flavour .. Don't try push that square peg through the round hole . You can only Caramelise those sugars so far ...

Enjoy and Please feedback .

Wayne

[SniffCoffee]

Thanks for that Wayne

I've already downloaded the 12 core profiles onto my Nano - are the ones in your post's zip file different?

Will let you know how I go.

Regards

James

PS Darryl - yes I'm in Australia, source my greens through Coffeesnobs.

[Wayne]

Hi James

The profiles are the same ..

Have fun with them .

Regards

Wayne

[SniffCoffee]

Ok Wayne

Here are four roast logs, roasting India Elephant Hills AA Peaberry at 2.4, 2.8, 3.2 and 3.6. 1500-2000m REST profile.

Will leave them till Sunday and then start sampling!

Regards

James

[nrdlnd]

@James (Sniffcoffee)
You have a long list of nice green coffees. I don't know much about them and if they are the best to get sweetness and cacao. In another thread I posted this link: https://library.sweetmarias.com/blending/
In your list I miss a couple of origins that can give sweetness and cacao; Colombians and Brazilians. Brazilians are important for me in espresso blends. It will be interesting to hear the results of your efforts!

[SniffCoffee]

@James (Sniffcoffee)
You have a long list of nice green coffees. I don't know much about them and if they are the best to get sweetness and cacao. In another thread I posted this link: https://library.sweetmarias.com/blending/
In your list I miss a couple of origins that can give sweetness and cacao; Colombians and Brazilians. Brazilians are important for me in espresso blends. It will be interesting to hear the results of your efforts!

Yes thank you for this - I had already discovered your link!

Regards

James

[SniffCoffee]

So we did a tasting of the four samples this morning in piccolo lattes. I was tempted to try without milk but as my wife and I both have our espresso with milk I thought piccolos were a good compromise.

As expected the single origin required a lot finer grind to get a decent pour, but kudos to my Niche Zero for making the dialling in process fast and easy to track.

Myself, my wife and our 17 year old all had similar comments - the 2.4 and 2.8 were acidic, and the 3.2 the most 'mellow' with the 3.6 also getting a similar comment. The 2.4 & 2.8 pours were a little faster than I would've liked so this may have added a bit of sourness.

I found this reassuring and also interesting that in terms of the difference in roast depths the difference was harder to see visually (ie the 3.6 didn't look very different to the 2.4)

So Wayne, great job on the recommended settings for your profiles!

James

[nrdlnd]

If your Origin does not have sweetness as an Origin Flavour .. Don't try push that square peg through the round hole . You can only Caramelise those sugars so far ...
Wayne

As Wayne says to get sweetness you have to find beans that can give that. In another post I mentioned Brazils and Colombians that wasn't on your list but I forgot to mention a natural Bourbon from Burundi.