Help with getting sweetness

[fnq]

Hi James (sniffcoffee)

I have circled back a bit in my wanderings, as i found my experiments in blends, roast profiles, roast depth, as well as cup variables were giving me conflicting data/tastes. ( i was trying to do too many things at once in search of that elusive taste.)

In my trials i have run out of beans whilst waiting for the next roast to REST and so use some of KLs core RTD profiles.

I have found a cocoa bomb...

Bean Peru Ceja de selva 100gms ( yes single origin only)

Profile RTD 2000- 2700 metres

Roast Depth 4.4- 4.6 ( you could try higher but my power is a factor for me, and i actually think the 4.4 was slightly better any way)

REST time At 15 minutes post roast there was some acrid/ carbon dioxide type after flavours but this may have been from the stale last grinds of the previous coffee
1 HOUR - 4 HOUR Just a beautiful roast for milk based drinks .. the cocoa taste lingers
4 hour to 24 ( somewhere in here, the flavour goes to a heavier darker choc but also loses its
balance ( i don't know where exactly but after a day it is not quite the same)

Roast Ideas This has become my quick fix roast. I now go for just over 100gm to yield 85 plus gms.... enough for 4 x 19 gm doubles, which just happens to be what i drink in a day.

I suggest doing two similar roasts to start ( ie 200gms total) as this will give a little time to dial in your grind before you run out. I struck trouble on an early roast because i was still chasing the grind as the beans ran out... not sure if this roast grinds differently or i was just slow to adjust


Where to from here

I am going to try and get more of a Cafe Commercial roast taste to get a bit more traditional coffee flavours.

So something like 25 / 25/ 50 Brazil Pulped / Indian Elephant/ Peru CDJ , but i may just end up with two beans in the blend.
Hope that helps, let me know if you try it.
Cheers Darryl

[Geronimo]

I am going to try and get more of a Cafe Commercial roast taste to get a bit more traditional coffee flavours.

So something like 25 / 25/ 50 Brazil Pulped / Indian Elephant/ Peru CDJ , but i may just end up with two beans in the blend.
Hope that helps, let me know if you try it.
Cheers Darryl

Hi Darryl

Have you had further success with your blending for milk. I'm struggling somewhat or stalled. Thought I'd pick you brain and ask if you can recommend something. I knocked together a Brazil Cerrado/Indonesia Mandheling/Ethiopa Sidamo yesterday but going to wait and see if is any good in a few days.

The standard Brazil/Colombia/Guatemala blend (along with a bit of Ethiopia Yirg sometimes) is my fall back blend.

Appreciate anything you have tried and willing to pass on.

Beans I have are:
Brazil Cerrado
Colombia Excelso, Supremo and Aspotimana
Ethiopa Sidamo, Yirgacheffe
Guatemala Huehue
Indonesia Mandheling
India Plantation B
Kenya AB
Peru Organic
PNG Sigri
PNG Ulya

[fnq]

hi Geronimo

Apologies for not being timely in a reply ( i just missed your post...).

You have some good beans there, and i like your 'go to roast' , good flavours for milk based drinks.

I am still mucking around with more traditional cafe blends, and so looking at Brazil and Indian beans as base beans. I was getting some really nice tastes with Brazil/ Mexican and brazil/ columbian blends but found a slight bitterness mid palette and have only recently read a suggestion to back off the Brazil from 50 %.

In 3 way roasts as a kicker type bean , i like Guatemalan, Ethiopian and too a lesser extent PNG. I usually use Elevation profiles, but am trying out the good old classic profile for my low altitude beans. (again trying to see if the Brazil beans and my roasting of is part of my tracing that mid palate bitter taste)

One you might like to try is the 'fruitcake blend .. pinched from another forum" - equal parts PNG, ethiopian and indonesian - although these beans are quite different they all are 1500- 2000m grown , and so to get me out of a coffee shortage i have preblended these in the one roast - I am roasting them individually using a 1500-2000 REST profile today or tomorrow.

Again sorry about missing your post, i will have to brush up on my forum search skills. Cheers Darryl

[Geronimo]

One you might like to try is the 'fruitcake blend .. pinched from another forum" - equal parts PNG, ethiopian and indonesian - although these beans are quite different they all are 1500- 2000m grown , and so to get me out of a coffee shortage i have preblended these in the one roast - I am roasting them individually using a 1500-2000 REST profile today or tomorrow.

Excellent comments Darryl. Exactly what I’m after, some ideas on blends to try without totally reinventing the wheel.

Very interested when your blend is near or at peak to hear what it’s like. I will also try this fruitcake blend at next roast time.

Thanks again

[Dane]

Really enjoyed reading this post. Great replies and interesting bean combinations.

Any feedback on that fruitcake blend you tried out?

I've got a few new beans to play with - Indian (monsoon Malabar), Brazil(natural) and Brazil (honey). Plus my staple cerrado, sigri and java.

Time to play some more with profiles...

[fnq]

Hi Dane

The original Fruitcake blend is equal parts Sumatran Mandelheng, PNG Wahgi and Ethiopian Gambella.

My bean supply necessitated me to use Sulawesi Blue , PNG wahgi and Ethiopian Shakisso or Guji

I preferred the blend with Shakisso but both versions were great with milk. I roast the Ethiopian to 2.8 and the others to the Profile default ( trying to keep some fruitiness)

I do think the Ethiopian ( or other fruit/wine flavour type bean) is important to impart a little lightness. (This may be an area lacking in your stack of beans?? -)

I find beans that give earthy /spicy or choc tones ( in your stack i would say the Sigri/ java /malabar? at a guess) can over power a blend ( i rarely use these as more than 30 % of the blend whereas i have often used an Ethiopian at 60% of a blend

I have just had a 2/3 Ethiopian Yirg 1/3 Brazil Natural Pulped in a latte at 8 days post roast, Hard to describe the taste - subtle but very enjoyable-

[Dane]

beautiful. Now to hassle my supplier and see what I can brew up.

Thank you very much.

[nrdlnd]

The heading of this thread is "Help with getting sweetness".The focus has naturally been on the geen beans and the roast.

I think there are other factors to consider if you want a sweet espresso and it's the extraction and also the grinder. For lighter roasts there are special requirements from the grinder. Not all grinders are equally good for lighter roasts and others may be better suited for darker roasts. It has to to with the particle distribution. It's possible to find a lot about this on different forums and as always there are divergent ideas of what profile is preferable.

Another thing is the degree of extraction. This is possible to measure with a refractometer. You can measure TDS (Total Dissolved Solids). This differs of course depending on your brewing method. Higher for espresso and lower for drip coffee. Out from this you can calculate your extraction percentage and that is usually high for "pour over" but can differ a lot for espresso. It's a curve that has a top but then goes down again and it's often said that the sweetest espresso is near the beginning of the top of the curve. If you continue the extraction percentage will be lower and more bitter.

Actually I have bought a refractometer but I haven't started using it yet. I've bought a bigger batch of a bean that I will start experimenting with. I will also look over my grinder and eventually change grinder blades.

OK all this is theories and I haven't yet any own practical experience to report but I may come back.

[TheBean]

Hi @SniffCoffee, it’s been a while since you’ve started roasting coffee so you’re now a pro while I’m a newbie… I’m having the same “charred” aromas you had at the beginning- how did you manage to overcome it? I’ve tried different levels of roasting, from 2.1 to 4.2, but the “charred” aroma always there.

[theiguanaoz]

Hi @SniffCoffee, it’s been a while since you’ve started roasting coffee so you’re now a pro while I’m a newbie… I’m having the same “charred” aromas you had at the beginning- how did you manage to overcome it? I’ve tried different levels of roasting, from 2.1 to 4.2, but the “charred” aroma always there.

Purely my two cents, but in my experience the K-Logic Classic profile produces such notes at default and even in the 2.0-3.0 range.

I tend to use the other core profiles that go by MASL (metres above sea level) for the origin of the bean, stick to between 2.6 to 2.8, and come away with something nicely caramelised and sweet - balanced to my palate.

Another thing to try is how you brew a char-like roast. If possible, lower the PID temp. If not, flush, wait 10, 20 or 30 seconds, then brew. Either way you're waiting for a lower temp on boiler temp recovery.

And set your ratio to 1:1.5 or 1:1.25 - meaning, if 18 gms in, 1:1/5 is 27gms out, and 1:1.125 is 22.5gms out.

Cutting it short can remove those cruddy notes. And in best case scenario, combine a lower temp and shorter shot.

But, yeah, if you can fix the roast, even better. I truly enjoy the altitude based profiles that Wayne designed. For someone not yet confident to do their own profiles, they seem to work well 80-90pct of the time. I find bracketing the roast lervel corrects the remaining 10-20%, and I just keep a little log per bean so I can remember what to roast!