Green Bean Sources & Quality

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espressoplease
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon 25 May, 2020 7:40 pm
Location: New Zealand
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Green Bean Sources & Quality

#1270

Post by espressoplease »

My question is related to buying beans in New Zealand, but I suppose the question could be answered theoretically no matter where you're from:

At what quality level do you consider beans "good enough" (or not) to get good results in roasting?

I realise that everyone's goals may be different (i.e some might want the highest quality no matter the cost). My desired end-goal is something comparable to what I could get at a specialty coffee roastery, at a little-less than what I'd pay there (not sure if that's really achievable, given the fact that they would buy in much larger quantaties than I do, and probably direct from farmers?). Say the equivalent of what I'd spend $14-$19/250g on.

Or if not quite that, then definitely a step above what I'd get at the supermarket, perhaps in line with what I'd get at a large, "almost-specialty" roaster/cafe (sorry not sure of the term to classify this level), say a $10-$15/250g bag of roasted beans equivalent.

Of course, I know there's no point me starting with the most expensive beans I can find; they'd be wasted on me at my beginner-level roasting.

So where do you think is acceptable to start? Here in NZ I've noticed that almost no-one says when the beans were harvested/processed. Some have a grade given, some don't. I can find cheap beans ($10/kg), and expensive ($30/kg), and quite a lot around $18-20/kg.

Advice/learnings please!
Beanz
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri 27 Mar, 2020 12:33 pm
Location: Tauranga NZ
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Re: Green Bean Sources & Quality

#1273

Post by Beanz »

@espressoplease - I'm definitely not qualified to answer your query and I'm interested to see what responses are forthcoming. I note that, too often, green bean suppliers are coy on the grade of bean being sold. If they do, then there appears to be a couple of different standards being used.

As I understand it, Grade 1 is the SCA standard for the best specialty coffee with the most consistent bean...down to grade 5 - useful for compost. However some suppliers use, like, Grade A. See this article. It is only one of many that showed up with a Google Search. https://theperfectgrind.co.uk/coffee-bean-grading/

Regarding New Zealand, check out eg Green Bean House. Besides the Robusta, Grade1, there are a couple of others that are listed as Grade 1. With some it is in the title and with others you have to open the bean profile to see it.

I would argue that you would want a higher quality grade, when starting out, esp with Single Origin coffees so that your chosen profile has a chance to make the bean shine. Where the bean is too varied in quality you will more likely end up with poorer tasting coffee and lose confidence. Given that some of the Grade 1's above are around $19 kilo, that doesn't sound too bad to me.

The Green Bean supplier sponsors are listed on the Kaffelogic home page or there abouts. Keep us informed
espressoplease
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon 25 May, 2020 7:40 pm
Location: New Zealand
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Re: Green Bean Sources & Quality

#1395

Post by espressoplease »

Thanks for your feedback Beanz.

This post will be a little long-winded...

Recently I'd been roasting batches of Ehtiopian Yirgacheffe and Kenya AB, both from Homebaristashop. The Yirgacheffe were the beans I was having trouble getting an even roast with, mentioned in a different topic here. I'm not sure what grade they were. The Kenya AB appeared much more uniform in size, and sure enough produced a more even roast. (I guess I could sort the Yirgacheffe into different size-groups myself, but I don't have a tool to do that with, and am not going to undertake this by hand!) The Kenya AB tastes OK when I've brewed it, but nothing to write home about.

How was the quality of these two lots of green beans? I really have nothing to compare them to, since a) I'm not a professional roaster, and b) who knows if my french press or espresso (or whatever) is brewed the same way as those from my favourite cafes. But, if I can buy some green beans which by all standards *should* be high quality, then I can at least compare with that.

So I started thinking, knowing a little bit about coffee grading, figuring price would potentially have something to do with it, and thinking about freshness of green beans. I had an experience a couple of years ago, with some "left over" green beans (maybe 2 years old) that I roasted in a Gene Cafe. Weighing the input vs output, I saw that they hardly lost any weight at all. They also didn't really develop much colour during the roasting process (I knew about that from popcorn-machine roasting). So they were too old.

Then I found this article on Green Coffee Freshness from Sweet Marias
. It got me thinking that I should (for the sake of comparison) buy the absolute freshest green beans I could find, from a source that I (subjectively) figured had stored them in good/ideal conditions.

I rememebered previously coming across John Burton LTD, who supply green beans to other business, but when I asked, also said I could order personally anything from 1kg upwards. This isn't an ad, but I must say they were very helpful, providing me a list of specialty coffee with which season they were harvested. I chose some Kenya AA from the 2020 season.

Roasting these, they came out somewhat darker for the same roast level/profile as the Kenya AB I was trying before. This tells me that the Kenya AB were possibly older, or at least more dried out. In the cup I do think there's an improvement (a more complex flavour), although I'm still playing with the roasting variables to see what I can acheive. The Keyna AA were actually cheaper per KG than the AB, too.

Next time I need to order green beans, I might enquire from some other suppliers too, to see what they can tell me about age, not just grade. I'll ask John Burton too, as I had a good experience (everything was done by email, in case anyone wants to give that a go).

So, still a lot to learn, but certainly adding to my knowledge as I go! Some questions I'm still wondering about/havn't researched yet:
  • Who scores the green beans (they sometimes have a score provided).
  • How much should I care about the score vs. other variables such as freshness? (Partially answered already).
  • How old or how low of a score am I willing to buy/is it worth buying?
  • Who came up with the tasting notes that is usually provided, and how useful is that?
  • And probably some others...
fnq
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun 21 Jun, 2020 9:27 pm
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Re: Green Bean Sources & Quality

#1396

Post by fnq »

Hi espresso please

Again , i am not expert in green beans , but i offer my info so you may consider ( or not).

Most commercial roasters who sell their green beans as well, would not be working with super old stock. So buy the beans they are currently using.

To pinch an adage i saw in a coffee forum a few weeks ago: How long do beans stay fresh--- rule of threes
green beans 3 years
roasted beans 3 weeks
ground beans 3 minutes
- this probably overstates the green period, but if stored in hessian or cotton out of the sun green beans should still be viable for more than a year.

In terms of grading , as you say there are differing measures.

I provide a link here to a simple explanation of SCA standards https://coffeebeansdelivered.com.au/blo ... en%20size.

This is provided more for wider reading just to ensure we are all on the same reference. ( I read this to be " we as home roasters are probably dealing with Grade 2 premium beans most of the time")

Again as mentioned sometimes the grading is hidden or the descriptors are probably purposefully evasive. When this occurs, i refer to the associated notes, and look for things like

well sorted, Tripled sorted, or
used in lots of our blends, a perennial favourite etc

Your Kenyan AA bean differences could just be seasonal variance.

and lastly, some beans just roast ugly, but still taste excellent, i would say Ethiopian Yirg would be a prime candidate

Cheers Darryl
Steve
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri 30 Aug, 2019 7:04 pm
Location: NSW central coast
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Re: Green Bean Sources & Quality

#1397

Post by Steve »

If the roast is baked, over or under developed then the green quality does not really matter unless it scored
below 80 points and is full of defects like under ripe and black sours then it will be really offensive.

If the roast is perfectly on point for its intended use then the difference for most people between 80 - 90 points is likely just cosmetic in that the higher grades will generally be free or very few defective seeds and generally much cleaner processing. You can just pick most of the defects out yourself.

Home roasters will generally be getting past crop or if fresh crop it was not already spoken for aka "spot buy".

If you can get your hands on a 90+ green you might start to notice some more stand out differences, but it will usually be getting older by the time roaster let some go for a premium $60 - $150 AUD and unless the roast is on point the difference is lost against a clean, reasonably fresh middle of road washed Ethiopian for example.

I can not speak for the quality available to home roasters in NZ but I would hazard a guess that its not terrible and the biggest differences will be realised in the roast quality and how baked it is.
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